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Re: Gloebits proposes money module for OpenSim viewers

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On point #1, So what? Again, it's a development branch. Expect breakage.
On point #2, Then why spend so much time flat out guessing how their module works?
On point #3, You don't know how it works, so I guess the doesn't really matter then.


Re: Gloebits proposes money module for OpenSim viewers

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Let's just pay with disqus votes then.

Re: Gloebits proposes money module for OpenSim viewers

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Just a reminder to all: In discussions, everyone is welcome: no one needs an invitation or special authority to 'weigh in'. Opinions are permitted, whether they are valid or not. It is also permitted that readers disagree with opinions and provide their own facts and perspectives. Ideally, this creates the dialectic that is a discussion.

Re: Gloebits proposes money module for OpenSim viewers

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There is a Discussion Guideline that people or organizations should not post self-serving material or external links without adding relevant material to the quality of the discussion. So, please consider enhancing statements, such as: "I am not convinced this patch is exactly the way to implement it both viewer and server side for multiple reasons" with additional information, such as a list or reiteration of some or all of those 'multiple reasons'. When people are presented with specific information they can respond with their own specific information and this helps to keep the discussion moving forward.

Re: Gloebits proposes money module for OpenSim viewers

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I already did that further up the discussion. We'll see how it turns out once implemented in the viewer code I work on.

Re: Gloebits proposes money module for OpenSim viewers

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Thanks for including something of a reference to your previous comments. Please remember that in a long discussion, it's hard to keep every previous comment in mind, so it can be helpful to the readers if salient points made earlier are reiterated. While not required, of course, it can improve the discussion immensely.

Once you have results please do post them here. Specific information is always the best way to work out any issues, whether they are general or idiosyncratic.

Re: Gloebits proposes money module for OpenSim viewers

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To give you one hint; user interface hell!

A grid might have a primary currency (that the user holds a balance in), some regions on the grid may have a secondary currency such as Gloebit, and in addition you might have PayPal vendors (or other similar systems) offering in a third currency. Which currency do you display for the region? Which currency do you update the viewer primary interface to purchase in? Where do you display the balances the user might hold for the different curencies? You might also want to present the users with the transactions in the viewer as if to not have to log in to multiple websites to get an overview.

One of my takes is that both the object floater (that now) displays the currency the object is to be sold in, also must have functionality to be able to set the current and amount the object is to be sold in if there are multiple currencies on the grid.

Likewise the currency must displayed when the user clicks an object to make a purchase, and only then offers the user to purchase additional currency if they don't have the balance to proceed.

It is also imperative for the grid owner to have a view of monetary transactions going on on the grid, otherwise the grid owner has no idea if fraud, that he might be held accountable to by authorities, are ongoing on the grid.

By completely removing transactions from the grid owner's view (and this is also a concern with OMC), the grid owner is virtually blinded with the respect to the economy of the grid and fraudulence that might take place.

https://uploads.disquscdn.c...

Re: Gloebits proposes money module for OpenSim viewers

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Again, it appears you don't grasp how any of this works. There is no primary/secondary/multiple currency as far as the simulator is concerned.


Re: Gloebits proposes money module for OpenSim viewers

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For the primary currency (the grid currency) it must be enabled on Robust for the grid, and should be displayed as the primary balance and currency symbol on any region on that grid. I did not think any region could opt out of this by configuration unless you don't load the primary money module on the simulator, so it will always be there.

In general I would think a grid owner would like to have the primary grid currency enabled in every region for consistency on the grid.

In general I would think every merchant would like the merchandise or land to be able to sell in the primary grid currency.

Mr. Gloebit states further up "So, we didn't require that a grid switch completely to our module. It can be installed on a single sim. Further, it can be enabled only for specified regions running under that sim. If you don't want to run multiple currencies or don't want that functionality, that's fine."

This sounds like Gloebit can be installed in ADDITION to the grid currency in select regions, while it is not entirely clear if that removes the primary grid currency from the region.

Re: Gloebits proposes money module for OpenSim viewers

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Again, it appears you don't grasp how any of this works no matter how many times it has been explained to you. Instead of inferring and supposing and making assumptions on what you read in the comments section, you could read the simulator code or you could just at the very least take the people who have actually written money modules at their word.

Re: AviWorlds reopens after burying hatchet with former partner

Re: AviWorlds reopens after burying hatchet with former partner

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So much love for Aviworldz.

Re: ZanGrid to close after ten years as an OpenSim grid

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This is Hypergrid Business, not Hypergrid Social. Questioning or commenting on the business decisions of a Grid is entirely within the scope of both the articles and comment sections under them.

Didn't get the idea from Zangrid's owner that she was down in any way but has mentioned in at least a couple places about how good her life is going to be leaving Opensim. So a little confused what you are on about with kicking her when she is down.

Re: AviWorlds reopens after burying hatchet with former partner

Re: AviWorlds reopens after burying hatchet with former partner

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Yes. It is my passion Cinder. and it is AviWorlds not AviWordz...lol...sorry...


Re: AviWorlds reopens after burying hatchet with former partner

Re: How to get support for VR music content

Re: ZanGrid to close after ten years as an OpenSim grid

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Of course you are confused about that. That is very clear from your comments on this post. Understanding that she was down would require empathy. Some people have it and some don't. So let me try and explain to you why I said the "kicking her when she is down" comment.....

Suz owns a grid and to most grid owners their grid is their baby. Closing a grid isn't an easy thing to do. Giving up that dream and all of the hard work they put in it isn't easy to do. So of course everyone involved is going to be down about it.

I understand that this isn't "Hypergrid Social". But OpenSim is suppose to be a family of sorts. It's a small community and if someone succeeds or fails it's up to the community to lift that person up not bring them down. I find that is rarely the case though. Instead people pile on with off topic comments like the one that included my name. I felt a need to nip that in the bud because it was just so outrageous.

As far as I can tell, her actual customers/land owners seem to be very understanding about things. I'm just not sure why some find it their place to be the negative voice in almost every comment on almost every post. But they do and then it normally spins out to replies and more comments until there are now 50 comments here and probably only a couple of them actually show any community spirit and empathy for their fellow OpenSim user.

And let me end this post by saying that I am not a Suz fan. I was on the outs with her. But that doesn't stop me from being human and understanding that this is probably a hard time for her and her team. It was a good grid. It was apparent that they (owners, admin, residents) put a lot of work into it. And even though I didn't get along with her well on a personal level I see that she is trying to exit this project gracefully and with class. She seems to be doing all of the right things in the way she informed her residents and by informing the OpenSim community.

And even after all of the negative comments here she still managed to stay upbeat and look forward and focus on her future and do it with class. A teachable moment for sure.

Re: Gloebits proposes money module for OpenSim viewers

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Hi Geir, thank you for providing me the opportunity to speak to this. I should attend more developer meetings.

I (for Gloebit and at the request of some customers) implemented land pass sales strictly in the Gloebit Money Module without any modification to the OpenSim Core. As I did so, I passed along all the research I did on the opensim-dev IRC channel. When core learned that I completed this, they did not want Gloebit to have an advantage and did not want the logic handled in the money module (and did not understand that much of the logic of all of the other transaction flows is handled in the money module, not in core), so they rushed a modification into the 0.9.1-dev specifically to pre-empt the work I had done. I begged them to stop and design this and explained they were making breaking changes. Core would not listen. I wish someone from OMC or anyone who has complained about this would have been in IRC when I was fighting this battle without much support. A couple of weeks later, core did something unprecedented, and pulled all of the 0.9.1-dev changes into the 0.9.0-release. I explained how this was bad process and how they specifically released a breaking change to the money module interface which was not in any release candidate and which no module was prepared for (including Gloebit). They didn't really seem to care.

Gloebit's money module was also broken at this point, and I had to rush out a fix for everyone on 0.9.0-release and 0.9.1-dev. I actually had to do more than twice as much work because of this modification to the core. The Gloebit Money Module has two implementations for land-pass sales: 1 which is handled entirely in the module for OpenSim prior to 0.9.0-release, and one which uses the new flow and interface which core added in 0.9.0-release and beyond.

Trust me, I (on behalf of Gloebit) was pushing against making any changes to core, not pushing for them. I also was not satisfied with the design decisions made for the new interface function. I did my best to guide them to improve it, but most of my suggestions were ignored. I also asked them to wait and get opinions other than mine from grids and other currency modules, to no avail.

Re: Gloebits proposes money module for OpenSim viewers

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Agreed Geir. I begged core to get input and not to rush money module changes.

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